LB Nerf

If this gets enough support ill take it to the admins. It is the most urgently needed change at the moment. Please upvote/comment and add any outrageous lb rolls to this thread.

-2 crit to all units or +10 cost to infantry.

Ill start.

lb v pd



lb v imp



Edit : Stop discussing other strat changes. Clovis and ivan already shut down any chance of that. But clovis did relent that lb might need a nerf so here we are. I believe with enough support theyll add it. If you want other strat changes badger clovis. We cant do anything about it here.

Lb isn't op.

Disagree.

Cause the op rolls LB has somewhere is balanced but the shitty rolls u have somewhere else.

We could do the same topic for pretty much every strat, gw for example.

كتب بواسطة Guest, 17.05.2018 at 17:36

Disagree.

Cause the op rolls LB has somewhere is balanced but the shitty rolls u have somewhere else.

We could do the same topic for pretty much every strat, gw for example.

i dont understand how anyone can look at 17 5 att units killing 16 8 defence units and say this is balanced and can be done for every other strat. Ive seen some crazy rolls but nothing even close to this extreme. Please provide evidence of such rolls with other strats.

I actually dont understand how anyone can come into this thread at all and say its not op. Are you trolling? Are you not dueling and cwing at all? Even scenario players must be feeling the effects of this strat. It blanket boosts all units.

كتب بواسطة Permamuted, 17.05.2018 at 17:43

كتب بواسطة Guest, 17.05.2018 at 17:36

I'm not saying those rolls are normal but first the probability for them to happen isn't that high. That happen, true, but not all the time and rolls are rolls, u could find stupid situation with other strats (mauz defeated 39 units IF, 90% infanteries with 40 gw units, only 17 marines in a recent duel we had).

Second if those particular rolls are indeed fucked up u have to think about it on a large scale, taking count of the fact that beside this critical (and the range, ok) u have no special kind of advantage using LB, unlike some other strat for which the benefits is certain, permanent, and on every rolls, every front.

U could consider necessary to lower the critic from LB, but then u'll need to give it at least a compensation cause it's a good strat, right, but like many others.

And btw i'm really not sure tyler was PD.

Honestly yes, it takes an aspect of the strategy out of the game because it's so strong and doesn't require specific understanding of the game to play - as opposed to GC, IF, etc

كتب بواسطة boywind2, 17.05.2018 at 17:31

Lb isn't op.

كتب بواسطة Guest, 17.05.2018 at 17:51

I'm not saying those rolls are normal but first the probability for them to happen isn't that high. That happen, true, but not all the time and rolls are rolls, u could find stupid situation with other strats (mauz defeated 39 units IF, 90% infanteries with 40 gw units, only 17 marines in a recent duel we had).

Second if those particular rolls are indeed fucked up u have to think about it on a large scale, taking count of the fact that beside this critical (and the range, ok) u have no special kind of advantage using LB, unlike some other strat for which the benefits is certain, permanent, and on every rolls, every front.

U could consider necessary to lower the critic from LB, but then u'll need to give it at least a compensation cause it's a good strat, right, but like many others.

And btw i'm really not sure tyler was PD.

Again provide provide evidence. Anecdotal is useless, you could be leaving out important details or misremembering the specifics. I have seen no such extreme rolls equal to those that lucky bastard is regularly generating. I expect this thread to fill up with screenshots. I intend to round up more off the forums myself later.

And on the contrary, no other strategy at current boasts the advantages lb provides with so little drawbacks. The primary units of the strategy - infantry and militia receive the strat's +13 crit without any cost nerf. Given that you're a man who appears to have a basic understanding of statistics, you must realise that a 13 crit boost to an 8 att/def unit is a rough equivalent to + 1 att/def to that unit when it all balances out.

So bearing all that in mind, how can you write the above paragraph?

I'd say increase the cost, but leave the power.

Plus gw needs an urgent nerf. The attack is just too high for the price it is.. 70 cost for 7 atc units, is too high. 90 reduction of the cost when selected, no other strat has that. Let alone the milita boost. Something needs to be done.

we also need more buffs.

I think ds needs a nerf.

كتب بواسطة Permamuted, 17.05.2018 at 18:07

كتب بواسطة Guest, 17.05.2018 at 17:51

I just have one question for now : what's the frequency of having critics ?

On the other end i'll admit that LB is maybe too op, cause its drawback - that i recalled consist in the lack of permanent and systematic advantage - might be not enough important.

And i'll gladly admit as well that u have a better knowledge of the game that i do, thus u're probably right ; my point is more trying to avoid the nerf of LB when other strats are rigged too like gw, so i'm wondering whether LB is the priority or not.

And i assume u're more a gw player than a LB player

This strat makes GC and IF completely useless, and even starts rivaling pd yet it has very little weaknesses. i just don't get why the nerf to inf and mil cost got reverted. that was the only thing preventing this strat from being obnoxiously strong on countries it shouldn't normally be that viable in.

all in for a nerf, i think we've all gotten fed up by getting t1/3 rushed by lb everygame. this strat can dominate on every country minus turkey. there's absolutely no reason not to pick it everywhere, and that's not a v good sign.

and while we're at it, i think some other strats (blitz, ra, if) that basically disappeared from the game deserve some buffs.

كتب بواسطة Leo, 17.05.2018 at 18:17

This strat makes GC and IF completely useless, and even starts rivaling pd yet it has very little weaknesses. i just don't get why the nerf to inf and mil cost got reverted. that was the only thing preventing this strat from being obnoxiously strong on countries it shouldn't normally that viable into.

all in for a nerf, i think we've all gotten fed up by getting t1/3 rushed by lb everygame. this strat can dominate on every country minus turkey, and that's not a v good sign.

and while we're at it, i think some other strats (blitz, ra, if) that basically disappeared from the game deserve some buffs.

The admins are anti any strat changes but clovis at least relented that lb may need a nerf. I believe with enough pressure we can get at least this.

كتب بواسطة JF., 17.05.2018 at 18:15

I'd say increase the cost, but leave the power.

Plus gw needs an urgent nerf. The attack is just too high for the price it is.. 70 cost for 7 atc units, is too high. 90 reduction of the cost when selected, no other strat has that. Let alone the milita boost. Something needs to be done.

we also need more buffs.

I cant remember what the buff progression was on lb. I think it got +2 crit and then the cost nerfs were removed on inf/militia the following year. Those cost nerfs make the strat "dumpster tier" to quote witch doctor. A roughly 18% and 33% cost nerf to the strats primary units will have a significant effect on your economy. Dont underestimate it. It's why i believe rolling back the crit power is the best approach. It will keep the strat relevant.

كتب بواسطة Guest, 17.05.2018 at 18:16

كتب بواسطة Permamuted, 17.05.2018 at 18:07

كتب بواسطة Guest, 17.05.2018 at 17:51

I just have one question for now : what's the frequency of having critics ?

On the other end i'll admit that LB is maybe too op, cause its drawback - that i recalled consist in the lack of permanent and systematic advantage - might be not enough important.

And i'll gladly admit as well that u have a better knowledge of the game that i do, thus u're probably right ; my point is more trying to avoid the nerf of LB when other strats are rigged too like gw, so i'm wondering whether LB is the priority or not.

And i assume u're more a gw player than a LB player

when you crit you deal the max dmg of the unit, and the chance of critting is based on the unit's stats. LB inf has a 15% chance to crit. We're not sure about the method used to determine the frequency of that happening though.

LB counters PD infantry which is why its such a great strategy to use. As we can see from these screenshots being thrown around, LB can beat these infantry on a 1:1 ratio.

Now let's start thinking logically. How can we counter this? By utilizing its POTENTIAL to defeat pd infantry on a 1:1 basis. This doesn't mean abuse it, it means utilize what it's good at. LB is strongest in large offensive stacks, countering ultra defensive, no risk playstyles. This encourages players to play much more offensively, balancing the meta of attack and defense.

-3 Critical seems like an appropriate nerf, but LB is a strategy that just hasn't been figured out yet. We don't know how strong an effect -3 criticals will have on LB. I support the nerf but be ready to make some counter changes should the nerf take LB's niche out of the current meta.

Also, GW needs a nerf just as much as LB does. But I guess we must take one strategy at a time to get somewhere.

كتب بواسطة Leo, 17.05.2018 at 18:17

This strat makes GC and IF completely useless, and even starts rivaling pd yet it has very little weaknesses. i just don't get why the nerf to inf and mil cost got reverted. that was the only thing preventing this strat from being obnoxiously strong on countries it shouldn't normally be that viable in.

all in for a nerf, i think we've all gotten fed up by getting t1/3 rushed by lb everygame. this strat can dominate on every country minus turkey. there's absolutely no reason not to pick it everywhere, and that's not a v good sign.

and while we're at it, i think some other strats (blitz, ra, if) that basically disappeared from the game deserve some buffs.

But lb is only useful with uk and ukraine. It has it's niches just like how DS has it's niches. Can you play LB in 5k? Nope. 3k? Nope. Africa, SA, ME? Nope.

Besides, it's not like people don't play GC or IF. It's just that people who suck at this game like GROM only rush as ukraine with LB and DS. Besides, GC is much more versatile than LB mid-game since it costs so much less and I would rather play that then play LB ukr because of how poor you end up spamming militia t6 - t8.

I think we should nerf DS.

كتب بواسطة Wheelo, 17.05.2018 at 18:41

LB counters PD infantry which is why its such a great strategy to use. As we can see from these screenshots being thrown around, LB can beat these infantry on a 1:1 ratio.

Now let's start thinking logically. How can we counter this? By utilizing its POTENTIAL to defeat pd infantry on a 1:1 basis. This doesn't mean abuse it, it means utilize what it's good at. LB is strongest in large offensive stacks, countering ultra defensive, no risk playstyles. This encourages players to play much more offensively, balancing the meta of attack and defense.

-3 Critical seems like an appropriate nerf, but LB is a strategy that just hasn't been figured out yet. We don't know how strong an effect -3 criticals will have on LB. I support the nerf but be ready to make some counter changes should the nerf take LB's niche out of the current meta

Wanna see how many times 1 LB inf can kill 1 PD inf? Almost never. Yeah, works great in big stacks? Otherwise, not so great!

اقتبس:

كتب بواسطة Permamuted, 17.05.2018 at 18:32

[

i think it only needs a simple nerft, such as +10 cost(or more with - crit added 2?). That still allows it to do what its best at but more costly. Atm its too cheap, That is why any country can use it from 3k-10k.

or just bring back its original nerf, with some minor changes.

كتب بواسطة Wheelo, 17.05.2018 at 18:41

LB counters PD infantry which is why its such a great strategy to use. As we can see from these screenshots being thrown around, LB can beat these infantry on a 1:1 ratio.

Now let's start thinking logically. How can we counter this? By utilizing its POTENTIAL to defeat pd infantry on a 1:1 basis. This doesn't mean abuse it, it means utilize what it's good at. LB is strongest in large offensive stacks, countering ultra defensive, no risk playstyles. This encourages players to play much more offensively, balancing the meta of attack and defense.

-3 Critical seems like an appropriate nerf, but LB is a strategy that just hasn't been figured out yet. We don't know how strong an effect -3 criticals will have on LB. I support the nerf but be ready to make some counter changes should the nerf take LB's niche out of the current meta

Lb is too inconsistent to be considered a proper country to pd, if it's a counter to pd then it's equally a counter to everything. as you said the strat isn't entirely figured out, and that's imo primarily because the way the critical chance is calculated isn't very clear.

but you can't deny how versatile this strat is, it can be played both defensively and offensively without drawbacks and that's too strong when you also consider it's viable on just about every country. In my opinion the whole crit system should be reworked and shouldn't roll max dmg. It makes the game obnoxiously more luck based than it is, and that's not good to have in a competitive environement.

كتب بواسطة boywind2, 17.05.2018 at 18:46

ofc you can play lb in 3k and 5k, also spain fra in 10k....

كتب بواسطة boywind2, 17.05.2018 at 18:46

كتب بواسطة Leo, 17.05.2018 at 18:17

This strat makes GC and IF completely useless, and even starts rivaling pd yet it has very little weaknesses. i just don't get why the nerf to inf and mil cost got reverted. that was the only thing preventing this strat from being obnoxiously strong on countries it shouldn't normally be that viable in.

all in for a nerf, i think we've all gotten fed up by getting t1/3 rushed by lb everygame. this strat can dominate on every country minus turkey. there's absolutely no reason not to pick it everywhere, and that's not a v good sign.

and while we're at it, i think some other strats (blitz, ra, if) that basically disappeared from the game deserve some buffs.

But lb is only useful with uk and ukraine. It has it's niches just like how DS has it's niches. Can you play LB in 5k? Nope. 3k? Nope. Africa, SA, ME? Nope.

Besides, it's not like people don't play GC or IF. It's just that people who suck at this game like GROM only rush as ukraine with LB and DS. Besides, GC is much more versatile than LB mid-game since it costs so much less and I would rather play that then play LB ukr because of how poor you end up spamming militia t6 - t8.

I think we should nerf DS.

except it's viable on every country minus turkey, and has it's place in 3k and 5k. i think you underestimate the power of this strat, it's very similar to gc and if in calibre but has the potential to provide you with a much higher reward. and it's not necessarily a strat that doesn't scale well in mid and lategame, it's relevant in all stages of the game.

i agree with you though about the noskill part, this strat has very little skill aspect as it doesn't have any defining nerfs. it's just annoying when you keep losing t3 rushes solely because the enemy got some ridiculous crits.

Are LB players consistently winning games over the other strats? I'd like to see a lot more data points. I would be reluctant to change strats without a great amount of evidence. How could you randomly sample to support a strat change? I have not played against LB.

كتب بواسطة humanist, 17.05.2018 at 20:56

Are LB players consistently winning games over the other strats? I'd like to see a lot more data points. I would be reluctant to change strats without a great amount of evidence. How could you randomly sample to support a strat change? I have not played against LB.

i'd love that too. I'd love strat statistics. Pick rate, winrate, competitive pick+winrate. It would be fascinating and a great indicator of what needs to be done where.

كتب بواسطة Leo, 17.05.2018 at 19:00

كتب بواسطة boywind2, 17.05.2018 at 18:46

كتب بواسطة Leo, 17.05.2018 at 18:17

This strat makes GC and IF completely useless, and even starts rivaling pd yet it has very little weaknesses. i just don't get why the nerf to inf and mil cost got reverted. that was the only thing preventing this strat from being obnoxiously strong on countries it shouldn't normally be that viable in.

all in for a nerf, i think we've all gotten fed up by getting t1/3 rushed by lb everygame. this strat can dominate on every country minus turkey. there's absolutely no reason not to pick it everywhere, and that's not a v good sign.

and while we're at it, i think some other strats (blitz, ra, if) that basically disappeared from the game deserve some buffs.

But lb is only useful with uk and ukraine. It has it's niches just like how DS has it's niches. Can you play LB in 5k? Nope. 3k? Nope. Africa, SA, ME? Nope.

Besides, it's not like people don't play GC or IF. It's just that people who suck at this game like GROM only rush as ukraine with LB and DS. Besides, GC is much more versatile than LB mid-game since it costs so much less and I would rather play that then play LB ukr because of how poor you end up spamming militia t6 - t8.

I think we should nerf DS.

except it's viable on every country minus turkey, and has it's place in 3k and 5k. i think you underestimate the power of this strat, it's very similar to gc and if in calibre but has the potential to provide you with a much higher reward. and it's not necessarily a strat that doesn't scale well in mid and lategame, it's relevant in all stages of the game.

i agree with you though about the noskill part, this strat has very little skill aspect as it doesn't have any defining nerfs. it's just annoying when you keep losing t3 rushes solely because the enemy got some ridiculous crits.

I've beaten countless LB UK with my PD Germ. It's not OP. You guys need to stop whining.

كتب بواسطة boywind2, 17.05.2018 at 21:46

I've beaten countless LB UK with my PD Germ. It's not OP. You guys need to stop whining.

agree i've beaten your ds ukr with my turk. Ds ukr is not op. You should stop whining.

Bad idea
the only strat that needs nerf is DS

-2 crit cuz i dont like big changes

It needs at least a minor cost addition to keep it as a power strat instead of nerfing it into oblivion. It would still be good with +4/5 cost to inf and maybe +2 to militia. Normal units costs should be decreased so none is actually a viable strategy inbetween imp and lb and strategies should instead add cost accordingly.

كتب بواسطة 1GodofWar1, 17.05.2018 at 22:36

Bad idea
the only strat that needs nerf is DS

Xaxaxa nice lie ds can be countered because shitty defence unit but lb op in attack and in defence with op crit lb tank can kill 2-3inf ez like ds heli and in defence lb inf rape inf and tank .