Tophat

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 06:58

I agree with you. Unleashed is going through a stage many young atheists go through. Hopefully, he matures from that. There are a lot of 14-18 year olds who suddenly become enlightened with this notion of "religion is all evil" and everyone who believes in it is retarded.

what are you talking about? i'm 14 and i never heard or felt this stage of non-religious people... O_o

كتب بواسطة Unleashed, 16.04.2014 at 07:32

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 06:53

Haha, although I did continue it in this thread. I'm not unlocking the thread, and by seeing your past responses to others, I know you won't respond to my intervention. You have very little substance.

By the way, eye for an eye is a terrible and primitive ideology. And actually, it's primarily found in the Bible and in religion.

Then I'm not going to respond to that post.

You are right. Turn the other cheek is the way to go for sheep such as yourself.

If you were capable of answering, my intervention would have naturally enticed you to respond. You choose not to because you simply don't have the knowledge to answer. So to compensate, you call me crazy and a sheep.

Just admit that you're wrong and learn from others for once.

Tip: If you want to convert people and showing them that religion is bullshit etc. calling them idiots or retards or putting them down won't help bring them on your side. Your method just makes you look uninformed, uneducated and cynical.

كتب بواسطة Tirpitz406, 16.04.2014 at 08:14

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 06:58

I agree with you. Unleashed is going through a stage many young atheists go through. Hopefully, he matures from that. There are a lot of 14-18 year olds who suddenly become enlightened with this notion of "religion is all evil" and everyone who believes in it is retarded.

what are you talking about? i'm 14 and i never heard or felt this stage of non-religious people... O_o

I didn't say everyone.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 09:04

If you were capable of answering, my intervention would have naturally enticed you to respond. You choose not to because you simply don't have the knowledge to answer. So to compensate, you call me crazy and a sheep.

Just admit that you're wrong and learn from others for once.

Tip: If you want to convert people and showing them that religion is bullshit etc. calling them idiots or retards or putting them down won't help bring them on your side. Your method just makes you look uninformed, uneducated and cynical.

Gr8 b8 m8. I actually had an answer ready. Like I said, you will never read it unless you unlock the thread which you locked up for no reason other than the fact that you believe this forum is your playground, where you can shut off the other kids whenever you want to.

I'm not trying to convert anyone. You can bring a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 06:53

You have very little substance.

And so do you. It's the entire forum against Me, and you guys still can't come up with a paragraph that I haven't heard before, that can actually make me think about it differently, and that isn't full of shit. You are like a bunch of rats taking turns, each one of you trying to bite me when I'm not looking.

But you keep forgetting one thing: I am the rat poison.

كتب بواسطة Unleashed, 16.04.2014 at 09:42

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 06:53

You have very little substance.

And so do you. It's the entire forum against Me, and you guys still can't come up with a paragraph that I haven't heard before, that can actually make me think about it differently, and that isn't full of shit. You are like a bunch of rats taking turns, each one of you trying to bite me when I'm not looking.

But you keep forgetting one thing: I am the rat poison.

Haha you're the one looking bad here not me. I asked your opinion on three notions, and even agreed with some of what I interpreted from your posts. So... it can't all be full of shit. Rat taking turns? We're not all out on a similar agenda to bite you man... You made some arrogant and ignorant statements... naturally people will argue against you.

And yes, I'm sure you've probably heard and seen all of these arguments and paragraphs uttered to you because of your ignorance.

You're not trying to convert anyone? So you're just being an ass hole on purpose? Look, when I discover a new notion, or a philosophical view or an approach or any political position that I find to be the truth or reality, I seek to teach people what I discovered, or perhaps learn from others. You do the opposite, you go off calling people idiots for their beliefs and that they're full of shit. No one will ever agree with you or accept that you're correct if you behave this way. But again, you said you're not looking to convert anyone, so you're just calling them idiots for the sole purpose of flaunting your so-called superiority.

Everyone in the forum is against you because you put them down, and because you're ignorant. You call others ignorant, when you are yourself. You're right that religion is fictional and can be bad forpeople. I agree as well, but PROVE IT.

I will open the thread, because I honestly can't wait for your answer to my intervention. Good luck.

I'm a man of my word.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 15.04.2014 at 20:48

Religion is real, its concepts are not.

That makes no sense.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 15.04.2014 at 20:48

Because not all of the Bible's content is fictional, have you read it? Or have you only watched Conspiracy documentaries, George Carlin, Bill Maher or memes saying religion and its construct is bullshit? You say it's bullshit, lies and fiction, where are the reasons?

Why would I waste my time trying to read a piece of bad fiction, when there are so many amazing books out there? I honestly tried, but I just couldn't stand the contradictions. I read one paragraph, then the next paragraph completely contradicted what the previous one said. Mindfucked, I threw it away. God is against killing, but he kills the entire planet. He is loving but he will send people in a jet-fuel firing hell for eternity. He is all-knowing, so he already knows what is going to happen in the future. So he already knows that Eve will take a bite out of the fruit, yet he tells her not to, in order to test her? Test what, exactly? HE ALREADY KNOWS that she will fail the test. Why is he doing this? Fun? Amusement? Or could it perhaps be, that all of this stuff is just a bunch of made-up, imaginary crap? He is all powerful so that means he has the power to do anything. "If the all powerful God controls Satan, he is an accomplice; and if he doesn't, he is not an all powerful God." He created galaxies, yet he can't give that child dying in africa a banana? How could a god like this possibly exist? Why would you worship this sick creature? If he was real, would you cower and submit under his threats and be indifferent about this stuff? Have you no heart?
If pointing out these things, and caring about the suffering of these people, and standing by what I see and feel means I'm going to be put in hell, well goddamn it, put me in fucking hell then. I will never worship you.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 15.04.2014 at 20:48

The only one you gave was that man created it and religion, which is obviously true, we all know this.

If everyone knew this, you wouldn't hear one single complaint from me, ever. Clearly, most people have no idea about this.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 15.04.2014 at 20:48

If you do believe the bible and religion are bullshit, lies and fiction, I'd like to see your opinion on a few notions, if you care to answer.
1) What is your opinion on the evolution of thought after the book of Jobs, in accordance to the chronology of the Holy Bible. Would you be willing to accept that the notion of retribution was broken? And do you think it still manifested itself in the following books of the Bible. If you haven't read the book of Jobs, I suggest you take at look it. Your views will improve, or you might just find it interesting, I'm not sure.

2) Do you think the Deuteronomy passages actually promote rape or do you think the pre-modern conception of people affected the laws imposed in this text?

3) Lastly, do you think the Bible was created initially with the purpose to control people? Or, do you think religion was created with the purpose to control people? Or, do you think they were both created with the right intention to teach the morality of the era, and the "purpose of control" was thus incidental because of man's egotistical beliefs and wanting of power?

Unlike religious people, I am not arrogant enough to claim that I know everything. I don't know what the book of Jobs is. I admit that I have no idea what you are talking about here, so I cannot answer. I don't have all the answers.
As for paragraph no. 3), I think it's both. It has been and still is, a mass control tool. I am mainly reffering to Christianity and Islam here. Back in time the church (priests) owned vast amounts of land while dozens of other people were crowded, each family, into some small shithole they called their home. Whenever one of them came up to the priest to ask "when will we have some of this land, we are so crowded". The answer was always: "You will have yours later/after". In the afterlife, of course.
Whoever came up first with this immediately rose to the top of the chain (kings and priests). The elites lied to the masses about the afterlife so they can keep all the good stuff.
As for morality, it most likely played a part in civilizing the population. But that's no longer necessary. You don't need religion to know it's bad to steal and kill. Your conscience and the law should be enough.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 15.04.2014 at 20:48

You are right Unleashed that rights are, in essence, imaginary; [...]
You need to specify the rights you're talking about Unleashed.

Rights are not rights if they can be taken away. In another thread, I already gave the example of the 100.000 + Japanese American citizens being moved away and locked up "just because" in 1942. In 2012, a country in the European Union had a referendum which called for the firing of its current president who repeatedly did things that contradicted the constitution. 80% of the votes were for YES, kick him out of the office. After the State Secretary of the USA together with the ambassador, and some EU and German politicians expressed their disagreement toward this, a quick masquerade was made up which claimed that not enough percentage of the total population voted (which is ridiculous), and the vote was ignored. The rights, the WILL of that population, was thrown into trash. You have no rights. Your rights apply when it is convenient to those in power. The right to vote is an illusion. The outcome will be decided at a much higher level.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 10:29

You call others ignorant, when you are yourself. You're right that religion is fictional and can be bad forpeople. I agree as well, but PROVE IT.

What more proof do I need than my own experience and that of many others? The proof is all around us. Open your eyes. Threatening children with eternal hell is abusive. It is bad to have people living in fear of eternal hell for something natural like sexual thoughts. It is bad to teach people that god is looking out for them. They need to rely on themselves. No result is because of god. If you achieved something, YOU did it. It was you who did that amazing thing, not god.
It is bad to avoid the good that this life has to offer, just because you hope you'll have something better when you get to heaven. You will waste your life.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 10:29

You're not trying to convert anyone? So you're just being an ass hole on purpose? Look, when I discover a new notion, or a philosophical view or an approach or any political position that I find to be the truth or reality, I seek to teach people what I discovered, or perhaps learn from others. You do the opposite, you go off calling people idiots for their beliefs and that they're full of shit. No one will ever agree with you or accept that you're correct if you behave this way. But again, you said you're not looking to convert anyone, so you're just calling them idiots for the sole purpose of flaunting your so-called superiority.

Everyone in the forum is against you because you put them down, and because you're ignorant.

Excuse my allergy to immense stupidity. But I think trying to reason with some people is a waste of time. Insults is what they ask for when they display such gullibility, and WORSE, when they impose this shit on others. I do not impose. I am not threatening you. I am just pointing things out, and if they're painful, so be it. I will not censor myself to appease the hypocritical masses.

This thread in a nutshell:

We are in agreement with the notion of "rights".

Religion is real in the sense that it exists and that people preach under it. That's what I mean't. Of course, it's content is fictional. Although, fictional is not the correct term here.

As for number 3, it is very difficult to determine if the Bible was created for the sole purpose of controlling the masses, with its morality teachings being incidental. It's not like a group of people got together to forge this plot to control people and obtain power overnight. Each book was written by different authors from different times, each with different linguistic abilities and perspective. Some of the stories are claimed to have actually happened, some are fiction on purpose, if the reader interprets it correctly, and some are ambiguous. All these books were put together to make the Bible under the order of Constantine, who essentially rewrote the entire Bible under his views with the help of his collaborators. So the Bible, is an amalgamation of over 40 books written by different authors, from different times, with different perspectives and then rewritten by Constantine and his collaborators. Not to mention the books that weren't included in the Bible, but who are hidden from the public in the Vatican archives. (Hint: Jesus was a murderer, the book wasn't included to the Bible) Not to mention translation, misinterpretation, repolishment, and books that simply vanished. So the Bible is quite the grain of salt to take, both for a believer AND an atheist.

For these reasons, I suggest you read it, if you're going to have such a strong opinion. Of course, there are contradictions and a seemingly evil God killing the masses yet has the commandment condoning murder. But remember, there's the ancient and new testament; there's an evolution of thought there, God is no longer a mass murderer! That's why any religion that believes in the God of both testaments are ridiculous.

To conclude, whether it was to control the masses and obtain power, or teach a morality, it's literally impossible to say that the Bible was good or bad or to even determine what the intentions behind the books were.

Thanks for replying. But read the Bible man.

And lol gardevoir. I laughed quite a lot.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 19:01

And lol gardevoir. I laughed quite a lot.

كتب بواسطة Goblin, 16.04.2014 at 09:52

"everyone is against me" is the number 1 sign of a teenager. Boo hoo.

?

i was like this when i was 10... D= (i'm 14 now and i don't feel like this...)

كتب بواسطة Unleashed, 16.04.2014 at 11:37

I'm a man of my word.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 15.04.2014 at 20:48

Religion is real, its concepts are not.

That makes no sense.

it toaly does make sense, that what religion teaches is real, gods maybe aren't...

كتب بواسطة Unleashed, 16.04.2014 at 11:37

كتب بواسطة tophat, 15.04.2014 at 20:48

Because not all of the Bible's content is fictional, have you read it? Or have you only watched Conspiracy documentaries, George Carlin, Bill Maher or memes saying religion and its construct is bullshit? You say it's bullshit, lies and fiction, where are the reasons?

Why would I waste my time trying to read a piece of bad fiction, when there are so many amazing books out there? I honestly tried, but I just couldn't stand the contradictions. I read one paragraph, then the next paragraph completely contradicted what the previous one said. Mindfucked, I threw it away. God is against killing, but he kills the entire planet. He is loving but he will send people in a jet-fuel firing hell for eternity. He is all-knowing, so he already knows what is going to happen in the future. So he already knows that Eve will take a bite out of the fruit, yet he tells her not to, in order to test her? Test what, exactly? HE ALREADY KNOWS that she will fail the test. Why is he doing this? Fun? Amusement? Or could it perhaps be, that all of this stuff is just a bunch of made-up, imaginary crap? He is all powerful so that means he has the power to do anything. "If the all powerful God controls Satan, he is an accomplice; and if he doesn't, he is not an all powerful God." He created galaxies, yet he can't give that child dying in africa a banana? How could a god like this possibly exist? Why would you worship this sick creature? If he was real, would you cower and submit under his threats and be indifferent about this stuff? Have you no heart?
If pointing out these things, and caring about the suffering of these people, and standing by what I see and feel means I'm going to be put in hell, well goddamn it, put me in fucking hell then. I will never worship you.

cause the bible is a good book, it's the worlds most read book ever for a reason...

also: why did you name this topic 'Top Hats'? this ain't TF2 forums

كتب بواسطة Unleashed, 15.04.2014 at 14:18

If you're gonna reply then lock the thread, don't bother. Give me the chance to respond, then you can lock it.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 05.04.2014 at 12:15

"Religion is real: no it's not" ??

Yes it is, you might wanna check the definition of real.

This is like saying the Three Little Pigs story is real. Real is something that I can see, touch, feel. Religion is fictional. It's a thing that we made up. It's in our minds. Personally, I think you are crazy, and crazy people shouldn't be moderators.

Now you can lock the thread.

1. Can you see, touch and feel gravity? Do you deny its existence?
2. When you hide your eyes behind your hands, you cannot see, touch or feel the television in front of you. Did it cease to exist?
3. Consider this logical statement:
- All [A] are [B].
- All [B] are [C].
- [A]
What can you conclude about [C] from this statement? The conclusion cannt be seen, touched or felt. Does it make the conclusion any less valid, or 'real'?
4. Consider the Bible, the Qu'Ran, the Torah and the Bhagavad Gita. These are religious texts. They can be seen, felt and touched. Are they, then, real?

You're about the dumbest atheist possible, and give religious skeptics a bad name.

كتب بواسطة Unleashed, 15.04.2014 at 14:53

كتب بواسطة Guest, 15.04.2014 at 14:21

Religion as a construct and idea is certainly real

It's imaginary, just like your rights, you cretin. They are in your mind.

Tell us how rights are any less 'real' than mathematics.

كتب بواسطة Unleashed, 15.04.2014 at 18:35

كتب بواسطة Guest, 15.04.2014 at 15:08

My Rights are not imaginary if enough people believe in them, friend.
---
You seem to have only accomplished making yourself look angry and hateful with these anti-religion threads, friend. Please open your mind to other opinions, before you begin transforming into that which you claim to stand against.

Those 100.000 + Japanese american citizens believed in their rights also. That didn't prevent them from being locked up. They did nothing. All they did was, they had squinted eyes. And now you won't respond anymore cause really there's nothing you can say anymore. You have no rights, they are imaginary and they apply when govt wants to, not when you want. You are merely cattle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Did you *actually read* the article you cite?
There is no question that the internment was INJUSTICE. Injustice is the state where Rights are denied.

Saying that rights don't exist because they are denied is like saying logic and reason don't exist because you are living.
You are an offense to logic and reason, but your stupidity doesn't deny the existence of either

كتب بواسطة zombieyeti, 16.04.2014 at 21:03

كتب بواسطة Unleashed, 15.04.2014 at 18:35

كتب بواسطة Guest, 15.04.2014 at 15:08

My Rights are not imaginary if enough people believe in them, friend.
---
You seem to have only accomplished making yourself look angry and hateful with these anti-religion threads, friend. Please open your mind to other opinions, before you begin transforming into that which you claim to stand against.

Those 100.000 + Japanese american citizens believed in their rights also. That didn't prevent them from being locked up. They did nothing. All they did was, they had squinted eyes. And now you won't respond anymore cause really there's nothing you can say anymore. You have no rights, they are imaginary and they apply when govt wants to, not when you want. You are merely cattle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Did you *actually read* the article you cite?
There is no question that the internment was INJUSTICE. Injustice is the state where Rights are denied.

Saying that rights don't exist because they are denied is like saying logic and reason don't exist because you are living.
You are an offense to logic and reason, but your stupidity doesn't deny the existence of either

zombie just watch this. Where unleashed's knowledge comes from. ( All of it )

كتب بواسطة zombieyeti, 16.04.2014 at 20:53

You're about the dumbest atheist possible, and give religious skeptics a bad name.

Ok, let me help him a little, just for sake of topic.

كتب بواسطة zombieyeti, 16.04.2014 at 20:53

1. Can you see, touch and feel gravity? Do you deny its existence?

No, Gravity is just the name of the invisible force that humans blame for dragging mass to the nucleus of our planet, in this case it doesn't need to be proved because we know for a fact that anything composed by mass is dragged to the floor, if "gravity" didn't pull us to the nucleus of the planet then the individual in the other side of the planet would fall into the void of the space .(Yes, i know china is not in top of USA, but its just a stereotypical planet huehuehue).

If in the future we find evidence that makes gravity invalid, i would change my stance because i am open for changes, just like when pluto "stop" being a planet.

كتب بواسطة zombieyeti, 16.04.2014 at 20:53

2. When you hide your eyes behind your hands, you cannot see, touch or feel the television in front of you. Did it cease to exist?

if i wasn't previously aware that a TV could possible end up in there when i had my vision, why would i even do such a thing? maybe if:

[A] i am in a TV store
[B] People are moving my TV
[C] there was a TV previously in the room and it has wheels to facilitate movement
[D] I know there is a TV in the room, but i forgot its location after closing my eyes.

كتب بواسطة zombieyeti, 16.04.2014 at 20:53

What can you conclude about from this statement? The conclusion cannt be seen, touched or felt. Does it make the conclusion any less valid, or 'real'?

IF I Haven't ever seen a TV in my life, why would you expect me to accept a conclusion that indicates that there is a TV in front of me? specially when i didn't see it before closing my eyes, in a room that i most likely know.

كتب بواسطة zombieyeti, 16.04.2014 at 20:53

4. Consider the Bible, the Qu'Ran, the Torah and the Bhagavad Gita. These are religious texts. They can be seen, felt and touched. Are they, then, real?

The books are real, but the stories told aren't exactly real just because the book itself exist, let me give you a example:

what if you where "send" to the future, and you grab one book in the "fiction" section, but you aren't aware of it, would you blindly accept all of the things that you read? or would you question them and try to verify their existence based on the brief time that you where expose to the "future"?

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 21:24

كتب بواسطة zombieyeti, 16.04.2014 at 21:03

كتب بواسطة Unleashed, 15.04.2014 at 18:35

كتب بواسطة Guest, 15.04.2014 at 15:08

My Rights are not imaginary if enough people believe in them, friend.
---
You seem to have only accomplished making yourself look angry and hateful with these anti-religion threads, friend. Please open your mind to other opinions, before you begin transforming into that which you claim to stand against.

Those 100.000 + Japanese american citizens believed in their rights also. That didn't prevent them from being locked up. They did nothing. All they did was, they had squinted eyes. And now you won't respond anymore cause really there's nothing you can say anymore. You have no rights, they are imaginary and they apply when govt wants to, not when you want. You are merely cattle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Did you *actually read* the article you cite?
There is no question that the internment was INJUSTICE. Injustice is the state where Rights are denied.

Saying that rights don't exist because they are denied is like saying logic and reason don't exist because you are living.
You are an offense to logic and reason, but your stupidity doesn't deny the existence of either

zombie just watch this. Where unleashed's knowledge comes from. ( All of it )

Sadly I did watch this. If I were to watch it again, it would be the 6th time.
George Carlin isn't a dummy; he's a comedian, a social critic, but not even an armchair philosopher. He clearly hasn't investigated the possible roots of human rights to the degree that a bright 12 year old with dial-up internet access could. Carlin is, at best, the start of a conversation on human rights, not the end.

كتب بواسطة UnIeashed, 16.04.2014 at 21:38

كتب بواسطة zombieyeti, 16.04.2014 at 20:53

You're about the dumbest atheist possible, and give religious skeptics a bad name.

Ok, let me help him a little, just for sake of topic.

كتب بواسطة zombieyeti, 16.04.2014 at 20:53

1. Can you see, touch and feel gravity? Do you deny its existence?

No, Gravity is just the name of the invisible force that humans blame for dragging mass to the nucleus of our planet, in this case it doesn't need to be proved because we know for a fact that anything composed by mass is dragged to the floor, if "gravity" didn't pull us to the nucleus of the planet then the individual in the other side of the planet would fall into the void of the space .(Yes, i know china is not in top of USA, but its just a stereotypical planet huehuehue).

If in the future we find evidence that makes gravity invalid, i would change my stance because i am open for changes, just like when pluto "stop" being a planet.

كتب بواسطة zombieyeti, 16.04.2014 at 20:53

2. When you hide your eyes behind your hands, you cannot see, touch or feel the television in front of you. Did it cease to exist?

if i wasn't previously aware that a TV could possible end up in there when i had my vision, why would i even do such a thing? maybe if:

[A] i am in a TV store
[B] People are moving my TV
[C] there was a TV previously in the room and it has wheels to facilitate movement
[D] I know there is a TV in the room, but i forgot its location after closing my eyes.

كتب بواسطة zombieyeti, 16.04.2014 at 20:53

What can you conclude about from this statement? The conclusion cannt be seen, touched or felt. Does it make the conclusion any less valid, or 'real'?

IF I Haven't ever seen a TV in my life, why would you expect me to accept a conclusion that indicates that there is a TV in front of me? specially when i didn't see it before closing my eyes, in a room that i most likely know.

كتب بواسطة zombieyeti, 16.04.2014 at 20:53

4. Consider the Bible, the Qu'Ran, the Torah and the Bhagavad Gita. These are religious texts. They can be seen, felt and touched. Are they, then, real?

The books are real, but the stories told aren't exactly real just because the book itself exist, let me give you a example:

what if you where "send" to the future, and you grab one book in the "fiction" section, but you aren't aware of it, would you blindly accept all of the things that you read? or would you question them and try to verify their existence based on the brief time that you where expose to the "future"?

Not helping at all, but I appreciate the sincere effort. Reminder: In the quote, Unleashed defined 'Real' as "... something that I can see, touch, feel."

In example 1. I demonstrated that something can be 'real' and be neither seen, touched or felt. His definition of 'Real' is incomplete. or he denies the reality of gravity.
In example 2. I demonstrated that one's momentary lack of visual or tactile confirmation of an object's existence doesn't impact the object's existence. His definition of 'real' is incorrect, or he believes that the physical world, not under his direct tactile or visual observation, lacks existence outside of his experience.
In example 3. (which you didn't address) I demonstrated that a logical deduction: [A], therefore [C] is no less valid, or 'real' simply because it isn't documented. Reading the argument line by line, one can conclude that if all [A] are [B] and if all [B] are [C], [A] leads inevitably to therefore [B] and [C]. The conclusion isn't denied merely because it isn't completed.
In example 4. I demonstrated that merely because a 'thing' has apparent physical extension (can be seen and touched/felt) that it need not be real.

The point of Unleashed's non-Carlin-belief system, The Matrix, was, if anything, that the senses are not to be trusted when making assumptions about the Real World (thus I often refer to him as a Blue Piller.
Because if there is one thing that The Matrix tried to instill, over and over, was to use reason and logic to question the input of the senses.

So what you say isn't necessarily wrong, just not relevant.

Notes
But yes, wrong, and not relevant.
1. Gravity isn't about the center of the planet. Much more, and less, than that.
2. By implication, the TV is 'in front of you' and therefore exists. The question is that if the existence of the television, or of all things not in your immediate experience is dependent upon your sensoria. Clearly not. Play peekaboo with a child or a mentally-disabled adult. Or Unleashed.
3. (4.) Clearly I wasn't making an argument of the existence of God based on the physical existence of the texts; these are mutually exclusive (Bhagavad Gita is a Hindu text).

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 21:24

zombie just watch this. Where unleashed's knowledge comes from. ( All of it )

I knew you would say something like this. You are ridiculous. My knowledge comes from many sources. Carlin says what I intuitively knew and thought about all along, but didn't have the right words for. I thought about this for thousands of hours, and what you read in the previous post was my thinking. I came up with that in my mind. So what if some of it is influenced by Carlin? You think those petty little things I call people are insults? No. What you said right here, is an insult beyond what I ever expected of you.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 18:55

We are in agreement with the notion of "rights".

Religion is real in the sense that it exists and that people preach under it. That's what I mean't. Of course, it's content is fictional. Although, fictional is not the correct term here.

As for number 3, it is very difficult to determine if the Bible was created for the sole purpose of controlling the masses, with its morality teachings being incidental. It's not like a group of people got together to forge this plot to control people and obtain power overnight. Each book was written by different authors from different times, each with different linguistic abilities and perspective. Some of the stories are claimed to have actually happened, some are fiction on purpose, if the reader interprets it correctly, and some are ambiguous. All these books were put together to make the Bible under the order of Constantine, who essentially rewrote the entire Bible under his views with the help of his collaborators. So the Bible, is an amalgamation of over 40 books written by different authors, from different times, with different perspectives and then rewritten by Constantine and his collaborators. Not to mention the books that weren't included in the Bible, but who are hidden from the public in the Vatican archives. (Hint: Jesus was a murderer, the book wasn't included to the Bible) Not to mention translation, misinterpretation, repolishment, and books that simply vanished. So the Bible is quite the grain of salt to take, both for a believer AND an atheist.

For these reasons, I suggest you read it, if you're going to have such a strong opinion. Of course, there are contradictions and a seemingly evil God killing the masses yet has the commandment condoning murder. But remember, there's the ancient and new testament; there's an evolution of thought there, God is no longer a mass murderer! That's why any religion that believes in the God of both testaments are ridiculous.

To conclude, whether it was to control the masses and obtain power, or teach a morality, it's literally impossible to say that the Bible was good or bad or to even determine what the intentions behind the books were.

Thanks for replying. But read the Bible man.

This response was dissapointing. You keep repeating the same crap. You are guilty of the same thing you accused me of. "You have no substance." Forget the why. What matters is the what. And the what is, that the burden of religion far outweighs any of the potential benefits. Which can be had anyway. There's nothing that a religious person has, that a non-religious person can't have. The opposite however, is not true. " Read the bible man" Hahahah. I understand what kind of person I'm talking to now.


You say you're not religious but you ferociously defend religion at every opportunity. People like you are funny. So you want to be free of religion yourself, but you don't want everyone else to escape this mental prison. And I am the selfish one? Haha. You and the people like you, are a bunch of unempathetic, overly selfish individuals who don't want to ruffle any feathers. You completely ignore the horror stuff and you keep going about your fake bible fiction book.

Now I understand. I am trying to reason with religious people. I am trying to evoke empathy in the unempathetic.

I am trying to arm wrestle a man who has no arms.

كتب بواسطة Unleashed, 17.04.2014 at 03:08

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 21:24

zombie just watch this. Where unleashed's knowledge comes from. ( All of it )

I knew you would say something like this. You are ridiculous. My knowledge comes from many sources. Carlin says what I intuitively knew and thought about all along, but didn't have the right words for. I thought about this for thousands of hours, and what you read in the previous post was my thinking. I came up with that in my mind. So what if some of it is influenced by Carlin? You think those petty little things I call people are insults? No. What you said right here, is an insult beyond what I ever expected of you.

كتب بواسطة tophat, 16.04.2014 at 18:55

We are in agreement with the notion of "rights".

Religion is real in the sense that it exists and that people preach under it. That's what I mean't. Of course, it's content is fictional. Although, fictional is not the correct term here.

As for number 3, it is very difficult to determine if the Bible was created for the sole purpose of controlling the masses, with its morality teachings being incidental. It's not like a group of people got together to forge this plot to control people and obtain power overnight. Each book was written by different authors from different times, each with different linguistic abilities and perspective. Some of the stories are claimed to have actually happened, some are fiction on purpose, if the reader interprets it correctly, and some are ambiguous. All these books were put together to make the Bible under the order of Constantine, who essentially rewrote the entire Bible under his views with the help of his collaborators. So the Bible, is an amalgamation of over 40 books written by different authors, from different times, with different perspectives and then rewritten by Constantine and his collaborators. Not to mention the books that weren't included in the Bible, but who are hidden from the public in the Vatican archives. (Hint: Jesus was a murderer, the book wasn't included to the Bible) Not to mention translation, misinterpretation, repolishment, and books that simply vanished. So the Bible is quite the grain of salt to take, both for a believer AND an atheist.

For these reasons, I suggest you read it, if you're going to have such a strong opinion. Of course, there are contradictions and a seemingly evil God killing the masses yet has the commandment condoning murder. But remember, there's the ancient and new testament; there's an evolution of thought there, God is no longer a mass murderer! That's why any religion that believes in the God of both testaments are ridiculous.

To conclude, whether it was to control the masses and obtain power, or teach a morality, it's literally impossible to say that the Bible was good or bad or to even determine what the intentions behind the books were.

Thanks for replying. But read the Bible man.

You keep repeating the same crap. You are guilty of the same thing you accused me of. "You have no substance." Forget the why. What matters is the what. And the what is, that the burden of religion far outweighs any of the potential benefits. Which can be had anyway. There's nothing that a religious person has, that a non-religious person can't have. The opposite however, is not true. " Read the bible man" Hahahah. I understand what kind of person I'm talking to now.


You say you're not religious but you ferociously defend religion at every opportunity. People like you are funny. So you want to be free of religion yourself, but you don't want everyone else to escape this mental prison. And I am the selfish one? Haha. You and the people like you, are a bunch of unempathetic, overly selfish individuals who don't want to ruffle any feathers. You completely ignore the horror stuff and you keep going about your fake bible fiction book.

Now I understand. I am trying to reason with religious people. I am trying to evoke empathy in the unempathetic.

I am trying to arm wrestle a man who has no arms.

You really don't get it, do you?
It matters not one bit if someone believes in Jesus or Santa Claus (or both, or neither) in regards to their argument's validity and evidence.
You provide no evidence, and your arguments are full of logical holes.
The shame of it all is that the TRUTH of your statements may be partially or completely correct, but since you can't make a coherent argument, literally everything you say is obviously the insane ranting of a wounded, stupid man, or an angry, abused child.

What does this mean to a 'neutral' observer - an open-minded person?
That your statements and claims are worthless, because they are no more than beliefs and opinions - and made without evidence or reason, just like those of the religious people you castigate. You claim to believe in evolution, but are unaware of its basic principles. You claim to hate Islam and Christianity, but have repeatedly belied your ignorance of both. You are driven by belief or disbelief, not evidence or reason.

The most recent assault on common sense perpetrated by you is to claim to empathy - either you have no idea what the word means, or you are insensibly deluded.

The only people who could *empathize* with you are religious fundamentalists: Those who eschew reason, logic and common sense, who are intolerant of the beliefs of others if in contradiction to their own, who possess a faith unshakable by any contrary evidence or internal logical inconsistency.

You are a bigot, and if you don't believe me, see if this doesn't *exactly* describe you.

كتب بواسطة Tirpitz406, 16.04.2014 at 20:37

cause the bible is a good book, it's the worlds most read book ever for a reason...
also: why did you name this topic 'Top Hats'? this ain't TF2 forums

And you call yourself an agnostic? You are a disgrace to all the other agnostics on this planet. If you want the main idea of the bible and of what jesus wanted to tell you read Tao Te Ching. It's the second most read book in the world. Although it requires additional knowledge, which you will be too ignorant to seek. I won't give it to you. Oh god, I did it again, the same mistake.

I am trying to arm wrestle a man who has no arms.

كتب بواسطة Unleashed, 17.04.2014 at 09:45

كتب بواسطة Tirpitz406, 16.04.2014 at 20:37

cause the bible is a good book, it's the worlds most read book ever for a reason...
also: why did you name this topic 'Top Hats'? this ain't TF2 forums

And you call yourself an agnostic? You are a disgrace to all the other agnostics on this planet. If you want the main idea of the bible and of what jesus wanted to tell you read Tao Te Ching. It's the second most read book in the world. Although it requires additional knowledge, which you will be too ignorant to seek. I won't give it to you. Oh god, I did it again, the same mistake.

I am trying to arm wrestle a man who has no arms.

yep, i don't have any arms, but keep coming at me, my "spear" will keep you away...
...enough sexual jokes xD

i'm not saying the bible is true, or the only real book, i'm just saying, the stories told in the bible are written really good and it's much fun to read.
also: agnostics aint atheists, there are even theological agnostics who belive in god, but aint sure he exists...

well, you are always talking about looking behind the shadows, right?...well, before you look behind other peoples shadows, you should look behind your own shadow.
always critisise yourself, look at things you could be doing better, and ask yourself, if your opinion is a good one, try to reason it, use how other people look at it, try to understand other people.
i'm always doing this, but i can't agree with you.

It's funny how 14 year old kids give me life lessons. "don't be arrogant, be modest, criticize yourself"

Too much self-criticism will kill you, son. You are self-destructive. Please, don't have children.

كتب بواسطة Unleashed, 17.04.2014 at 11:22

It's funny how 14 year old kids give me life lessons. "don't be arrogant, be modest, criticize yourself"

Too much self-criticism will kill you, son. You are self-destructive. Please, don't have children.

your age doesn't affect your maturity, if you are older you just had more time to get it, you didn't though

"Too much self-criticism will kill you, son." too less will get you bullied...anyways, you should just handle your opinions like folders in your backpack, that you can easily switch if you find a better one.

just saying: you are very chilidish for your age

كتب بواسطة Tirpitz406, 17.04.2014 at 11:28

nyways, you should just handle your opinions like folders in your backpack, that you can easily switch if you find a better one.
just saying: you are very chilidish for your age

Stop telling me what to do, you controlling, self-destructive, harm self-inflicting creep. Kill yourself (metaphorically speaking) if you want to, just don't try to pull others down with you.

كتب بواسطة Unleashed, 17.04.2014 at 11:32

كتب بواسطة Tirpitz406, 17.04.2014 at 11:28

nyways, you should just handle your opinions like folders in your backpack, that you can easily switch if you find a better one.
just saying: you are very chilidish for your age

Stop telling me what to do, you controlling, self-destructive, harm self-inflicting creep. Kill yourself (metaphorically speaking) if you want to, just don't try to pull others down with you.

yep, i'd kill myself if i wanted to, but i will never want to, because i know that i'm going to have about 85 years to go, full of fun and women and alcohol and playing atwar and building a family and...(endless list)
and, isn't having control over yourself something really good? control is better than being unabled to change anything...
and yes: i'm trying to change your way of thinking, because i think it's the best way of thinking. if you find a better way how to think, tell me, if i agree with you, i'll change.

I said metaphorically speaking. But you can't do it. You are already dead. Realize this is not YOU speaking:

كتب بواسطة Tirpitz406, 17.04.2014 at 11:13

always critisise yourself, look at things you could be doing better, and ask yourself, if your opinion is a good one, try to reason it, use how other people look at it

كتب بواسطة Tirpitz406, 17.04.2014 at 11:38

you should just handle your opinions like folders in your backpack, that you can easily switch if you find a better one.

Well Zombie covered everything, as usual. I'm not a religious person. I'm an agnostic atheist, if you were interested to know. I wasn't defending religion, I was taking a neutral stance on it because your arguments are arrogant and too strong for the poor knowledge it is supported with. You make several category mistakes, and errors in logic as zombie said.